Curse

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 04, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I have been working hard with my PvE characters. Now with the new pvp system it seems just pointless to use my pve characters in pvp. But even though i see this i still see people on observer use pve characters. What do u think PvE characters or PvP?

Patrograd · Dec 04, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

What do u think PvE characters or PvP?

Depends.

If you want to look good, bring a PVE toon, if you're not bothered about looks, bring a PVP

Bankai · Dec 04, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

PvP chars. The only reason to use PvE chars is for either Dire pets or special weapons like the coke weapons.

Skuld · Dec 04, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

If you can afford, have the time, and want; PvE. But don't put yourself at a disadvantage compared to a PvP

icedwhitemocha · Dec 04, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

The only people who are still using PvE characters are those who had them completely set up for PvP pre-update. They have no reason to use one or the other since their functionality is exactly the same, so ofc they choose to look good.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 04, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Actually, with all the awesome green shields running around, it was really easy to keep pve guys up with pvp guys. The inscriptions play into that too.

I keep my ele up to date, but my warrior doesn't even have a decent shield anymore, and I really wish I could un-customize all those bows.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 04, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Yeah, I spend all my money on perfect upgrades for nothing! I could've bought capture signets for that, you know!
Great update.

shardfenix · Dec 04, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

I think nerfing pve was a big mistake. Now there are 2 reasons to play pve.
1: You don't like pvp.
2: To look cool.

So what if a character is better because you've spent 100+ hours on it? I think play time deserves tiny rewards.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 05, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I think nerfing pve was a big mistake. Now there are 2 reasons to play pve.
1: You don't like pvp.
2: To look cool.

So what if a character is better because you've spent 100+ hours on it? I think play time deserves tiny rewards.

No. ANet has stated many a time that it shouldn't be a grind game to be good. A decent player can literally start a new account, play for maybe 10-15 hours, and be ready for a GvG with a decent amount of perfect builds. That is how it is, and that is how it should be.

Ensign · Dec 05, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

It takes a lot longer than that to unlock a competitive PvP character. Figure 10,000 faction for the skills, and another 7,500-12,000 for the runes. Then you have your weapons, which for four sets can cost you anywhere from 5,000 faction (for casters with a lot of stuff unlocked already) up to around 20,000 faction (having to unlock prefixes and suffixes on both main and offhand items). When you have absolutely nothing, you don't have the tools to power out faction with, either. Maybe it's trivial for some people, but getting 30,000 faction or so on average just to have my first competitive character is pretty nutty.

The game still needs methods to infuse new players with faction, because I can only imagine it being one hell of a grind to get that first character. That's without mistakes as well, if you buy skills or items that you ultimately won't use, that cost to get into PvP goes up dramatically.

Peace,
-CxE

TheOneMephisto · Dec 05, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It takes a lot longer than that to unlock a competitive PvP character. Figure 10,000 faction for the skills, and another 7,500-12,000 for the runes. Then you have your weapons, which for four sets can cost you anywhere from 5,000 faction (for casters with a lot of stuff unlocked already) up to around 20,000 faction (having to unlock prefixes and suffixes on both main and offhand items). When you have absolutely nothing, you don't have the tools to power out faction with, either. Maybe it's trivial for some people, but getting 30,000 faction or so on average just to have my first competitive character is pretty nutty.

The game still needs methods to infuse new players with faction, because I can only imagine it being one hell of a grind to get that first character. That's without mistakes as well, if you buy skills or items that you ultimately won't use, that cost to get into PvP goes up dramatically.

Peace,
-CxE

I probably should've made more of a point that this would be for an already fairly experienced PvPer creating a new account. Ofc a new player would take much longer, just because they aren't going to be winning as much and because they won't know what to get.

But tbh, the starter builds aren't that horrible, and the zaishen can get you enough faction in a small amount of time to shiny up some of those builds and start grinding out faction.

*lemming* · Dec 05, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

So what if a character is better because you've spent 100+ hours on it? I think play time deserves tiny rewards.

Looking good -> e-peen enlargement = tiny reward.

Riotgear · Dec 05, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Figure 10,000 faction for the skills, and another 7,500-12,000 for the runes. Then you have your weapons, which for four sets can cost you anywhere from 5,000 faction (for casters with a lot of stuff unlocked already) up to around 20,000 faction (having to unlock prefixes and suffixes on both main and offhand items). When you have absolutely nothing, you don't have the tools to power out faction with, either.

You don't NEED that much to start farming Balthazar faction though. You can monk RA for Balth faction with half a skill bar, which you can then grow into a full boon prot or b-light bar, and then add runes on top of that.

Nothing is hard to farm when all it requires is beating terrible players.

Lord Ares Maximus · Dec 05, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

i pimp my pve characters and make them pvp ready. I like to look unique. It totally is just preference. It's easy to make pve characters pvp ready, just dip and dab in some pve when you are not gvg'ing/pvp'ing.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 05, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It takes a lot longer than that to unlock a competitive PvP character. Figure 10,000 faction for the skills, and another 7,500-12,000 for the runes. Then you have your weapons, which for four sets can cost you anywhere from 5,000 faction (for casters with a lot of stuff unlocked already) up to around 20,000 faction (having to unlock prefixes and suffixes on both main and offhand items). When you have absolutely nothing, you don't have the tools to power out faction with, either. Maybe it's trivial for some people, but getting 30,000 faction or so on average just to have my first competitive character is pretty nutty.

The game still needs methods to infuse new players with faction, because I can only imagine it being one hell of a grind to get that first character. That's without mistakes as well, if you buy skills or items that you ultimately won't use, that cost to get into PvP goes up dramatically.

Peace,
-CxE

I think this is a good idea. Maybe a series of PvP-related quests that involve things like kiting, skill chains, what exactly is utility etc. These should be designed, or at least checked, by high level PvP-ers. You can do this quest as many times as you like, but you'd only get faction the first time. That 'first time' would be account based. All the quests together should give you about 30K faction. Make sure you mention in one quest that faction caps at 10K (for new-->unranked players).

Thom · Dec 05, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I think nerfing pve was a big mistake. Now there are 2 reasons to play pve.
1: You don't like pvp.
2: To look cool.

So what if a character is better because you've spent 100+ hours on it? I think play time deserves tiny rewards.

The reward is more efficiency in PvE which has become increasingly more difficult. With all the new content, I find PvE whining harder to take seriously. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that someone has maxed out quests and PvE ranks to a point where they can complain about lack of content and rewards.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 05, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I think nerfing pve was a big mistake. Now there are 2 reasons to play pve.
1: You don't like pvp.
2: To look cool.

So what if a character is better because you've spent 100+ hours on it? I think play time deserves tiny rewards.

I forgot to add to my last post
It's total bs that spending 100+ hours on a PvE character should give you a reward, but spending 100+ hours monking in GvG on several PvP monks which you frequently delete and reroll should not give you that same reward. In both cases you've spend 100+ hours on what is essentially the same character, but just because you've spend them hacking monsters with one of them means you get a reward. The reward for spending 100+ hours on a character should be that you get more experienced and better at playing that character. Nothing more.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 05, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It takes a lot longer than that to unlock a competitive PvP character. Figure 10,000 faction for the skills, and another 7,500-12,000 for the runes. Then you have your weapons, which for four sets can cost you anywhere from 5,000 faction (for casters with a lot of stuff unlocked already) up to around 20,000 faction (having to unlock prefixes and suffixes on both main and offhand items). When you have absolutely nothing, you don't have the tools to power out faction with, either. Maybe it's trivial for some people, but getting 30,000 faction or so on average just to have my first competitive character is pretty nutty.

The game still needs methods to infuse new players with faction, because I can only imagine it being one hell of a grind to get that first character. That's without mistakes as well, if you buy skills or items that you ultimately won't use, that cost to get into PvP goes up dramatically.

Peace,
-CxE

Agreed. Although i was able to get a good amount of faction just from monking in RA starting my account over again and tryin to do pvp would be a real drag. I mean just imagine with inscriptions and all that new stuff on top of no runes or decent skills. I think that would be a pain. By the time i actually got to pvp from pve i had almost all the runes unlocked alot of skills including elites unlocked and a decent amount of weapon upgrades. From there it wasnt that hard i couldnt imagine trying without that stuff though. Although now it could make the game seem more challenging but i dont think im willing to remake my account.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 05, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I think taking away the premades was a big hit for new players. After they changed them so some actually good builds, you would be able to really start a new account, log on and get a decent build. You'd need ~15K faction for perfect runes/upgrades, but you could easily get that using not so perfect equipment farming in RA. Start off with nothing but your skill and your skills, farm 3K, get sup vigor, farm 1K, get minor axe, farm 2K more, get minor strength/tactics and so on. I think to compensate for taking away premades some sort of faction infuse for new players wouldn't be a bad idea.

shardfenix · Dec 05, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I forgot to add to my last post
It's total bs that spending 100+ hours on a PvE character should give you a reward, but spending 100+ hours monking in GvG on several PvP monks which you frequently delete and reroll should not give you that same reward. In both cases you've spend 100+ hours on what is essentially the same character, but just because you've spend them hacking monsters with one of them means you get a reward. The reward for spending 100+ hours on a character should be that you get more experienced and better at playing that character. Nothing more.

Those monks you kept rerolling didn't cost the extra 100+ hours to build, so no, they do not deserve a reward.

You see, during those 100+ hours on your pve toon, you don't get champ points or faction. That's the tradeoff that makes it ok.

What it comes down to is this. Functionally, PvE is useless. I think there needs to be something that makes it important.